What a great idea.....
Announcement rom Corfu Selections:
Inter resort bus passes from Roda, Sidari, San Stefanos & Arillas. Daily for 5 euros per day with options for 7 & 14 days available. Shortly to be launched from particpicating vendors in the resorts or via your holiday rep or hotel receptions........Operating during August & September for a trial period this summer. If you are a vendor and are interested to sell on a commssion basis conatct us. More info at info@corfuselections.com. Or if you want to purchase then contact us directly on : info@corfuselections.com for flyers and other literature concerning the compamy operating this new service to the North & North West of Corfu......
Yeeiii! I wish there was a LIKE button here too! :)
Drat! Arrive too late for the fesival and leave on 29th July before this starts. Must have a word with he who chose the dates....
Phil
I have received further information from Lesley at Corfu Seletions:
Inter Resort Pass Prices:
€5 for a 1 day pass, €15 for a 7 days pass and €25 for a 14 days pass.
The pass will entitle its purchaser to take as many journeys as they wish, during the valid period of the pass, on a circular routed bus service that will circuit the resort towns of Sidari, Roda, San George, Arillas, San Stefanos and back to Sidari.
Service timetable will be confirmed at a meeting due to take place shortly.
Queries on Trip Advisor and suchlike travel related forums show that the lack of a regular bus service deters many people from visiting this part of the island. I hope the project gets off the ground - it can only be good for Arillas :-)
http://www.kidsstuffandthings.com The Wheels On The Bus Children's Animation
Why would anyone want to go anywhere else apart from Arillas?
Al & Sal
We rarely ever do Al and Sal. But would be nice to be able to wave the bus off in a smug "glad we missed it" fashion....
lol
Phil
I think its a really good idea especially for those who may not be able to afford the hire of car's bike's or even boats, the area's surrounding Arillas are great but when you take a little trip is'nt it nice then to come back to Arillas...also it will give others who are not staying the chance to visit and maybe come back and stay the following year- all helps
Ang
And, it could help many with the "Lack of cash machine problem" plus get a bit of a trip out for little cost.
We will keep everyone updated as to when and timings etc as soon as we have a list of vendors participating. We hope this will encourage people from other resorts to visit Arillas and of course vice versa. Helping the local economy in each of the resorts as well.
lesley
sounds a grt idea,,lets hope it works yammas
One word, brilliant.
This would be a godsend for all the people who now find that walking even into San Stef a little hard on the old legs, or in mine and Bills' case the old heart!!
Pity it won't start until we leave.
Val x
Val luvver, I've just mused on Facetube with tearing up the tickets back. Sad bit is that we don't even get tickets on Easy Jet. I'll tell you though, if we could, Jen and me would stay from 29th July until 31st October. The sad bit is that we will be in UK from 30th July till 24th October. At least we are already booked to go home in half term.
See you soon
Phil
Phil and Jen, we too leave early hours on 30th July so 29th is our last day also, but only until next time.
'Next time in Arillas',.... have become my favourite words.
Unfortunately we will have to wait until next year having had one visit home already.
Val x
We are bringing Nic's elderly parents next year, and I know they would really like to use the bus service. It will be their first and probably only visit to corfu and they will want to see as much as they can without being reliant on me driving (I'm willing), unfortunately since a slight stroke my father inlaw has reduced peripheral vision so can't drive. Lots of first timers like to see as much as they can and I think this can only encourage first timers.
So agree NicandJohn. It will be so useful for those who can't or won't drive, and can't afford to get taxis everywhere. Jen and me find it hard work ever leaving Arillas and usually regret bothering, but first timers won't have that connection and need to see all of the North West coast. I have been shouting about this for years, and will support it in any way I can. Certainly by using it. Sadly next year...
Phil
Do you remember us having a conversation about running a bus on the north west coast when we came down to visit you last october Phil.
You were going to drive it and live out there off the income.
Will you be applying for a Job?
lol John. With my reputation nobody would ever get on the bus.
But oh yes, we sat here in Baltonsborough working out how great a service like this would be. I think it occupied several hours..... Never had a chance to apologise for boring yous to death.
We all agreed that there was a business in the making. Us four would use it, as would many more. You could do the driver job though. Dot could be the fare-collector. I can think of much worse ways to earn a crust....
Nothing new under the sun. Like yous was amazed to hear our October discussion turned into reality by our Eileen. But I wasn't surprised.
See you soon
Phil
Once again thank you for all the posts which are really encouraging for the company whom are organising this trial from August this summer we will keep everyone posted as we hear further on timings etc. I have been around resort posting information and also emailing out and asking vendors to support this, so we can only hope that this much needed/discussed service will become a reality. It will be of benefit to holidymakers and suppliers in resort and hopefully open the area for future tourism which can only be a good thing. We will keep everyone posted to updated information but in the meantime please share and pass the word....... If you have friends you can share on Facebook we have set this up as an event to try to inform as many people as possible. Thanks again Lesley
This will be great for us as my teenage son and his friend wanted to visit Sidari (eww!!:-)) and this would be a much cheaper option. Have you any idea when the latest bus would be at this stage?
Maybe if it successful, some buses could extend to take in Afionas and Agios Georgios too???
Dennis
Quote from: iluvsangeorge on July 04, 2011, 11:15:55 AM
Maybe if it successful, some buses could extend to take in Afionas and Agios Georgios too???
Dennis
Dennis,
Good news! Ag.G is mentioned in my earlier post which was taken from Lesley's flyer.
The pass will entitle its purchaser to take as many journeys as they wish, during the valid period of the pass, on a circular routed bus service that will circuit the resort towns of Sidari, Roda, San George, Arillas, San Stefanos and back to Sidari"
Sounds good to me a trip to another resort a few beers maybe a snooze on the way back lol a quick shower then out in Arillas for the evening :-)
Good news! Ag.G is mentioned in my earlier post which was taken from Lesley's flyer.
The pass will entitle its purchaser to take as many journeys as they wish, during the valid period of the pass, on a circular routed bus service that will circuit the resort towns of Sidari, Roda, San George, Arillas, San Stefanos and back to Sidari
[/quote]
Thanks Eileen ! I hadn't noticed that.
Dennis
we are coming in late July (5 adults and 2 kids) and will definitely use it, to look around, go to the cashpoint in San Stef and to really appreciate how fab Arillas is!
Jude
What a good idea, shame it dosn't include Alykes as Michelle and the children will be at the Louis family resort there from 1st Aug and really wants to see Arillas and to meet some special friends of our's but she dosent like the thought of driving in Corfu with Benjamin and Isabelle in the back. Viv
Great to hear about the bus service. We'll be in Arillas for first time in late August and will use it. We'd love to re-visit Canal d'Amour and The Face taverna(but not for too long).Should be a cheap way to see the surrounding villages and then be smug about choosing Arillas! Yammas!
In a super-swoop yesterday a team of Tax Officials tried to shut down the new Inter-Resort Bus Service.
They pounced on one of our bus drivers in San Stefanos and Arillas, confiscating his driver's licence and documents. These are essential, since if he doesn't carry them on him he is not allowed to work. Eventually, they agree to return them.
When I confronted them In Arillas, their second super-swoop, and demanded to see their IDs and know what they were doing by stopping a legal bus service, presenting copies of my UK Company Incorporation details, they then changed their officious tone, and eventually agreed that to stop the bus service, since no laws were being broken, would not be appropriate. I think they were trying to establish whether drivers were taking cash fares on board, which of course, as our informational material clearly states would be illegal under local laws. Having established that our drivers had not broken any laws they agreed to conference in Sidari, followed up with a meeting at the central Tax Office in Corfu.
The bus service was allowed to continue to run.
Their argument was that because my company was not registered under the Greek tax system it was trading illegally. I pointed out that Corfu Direct was registered in the UK and was subject to UK tax liability and that in order to liable for tax in Greece it would have had to be registered as a Greek company. I pointed out that as a legally incorporated company in an EU State I was subject to EU Laws as regarded tax. (Funny, I thought that Greece and Britain were both members of the EU and both subject to EU Law). They did not disagree.
This is a classic anti-trust "Catch 22" clause that Greece invokes to unlawfully protect its internal market, which is in total contravention to Articles 101 to 109 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
In order to stay fully within Greek Law Corfu Direct had appointed a registered travel agent, so that all the necessary licences to engage the services of bus companies would be fulfilled. (I did my homework before leaving the UK).
The meeting at the Tax Office established that the Inter-Resort Bus Service was a 'fully legal' enterprise, but conversely, they refused to accept the legal status of any company to trade in Greece without a Greek tax number, which as I pointed out was not possible to get.
In order to complete our two-month trial they insisted that I transfer the entire Bus Service project to my registered agent, thereby effectively stealing the project and giving it a Greek company. I would describe that as state sponsored theft, but I had no choice if the busses were to keep running, and I was to get back a penny of the huge investment I have made to get the idea off the ground. The Tax Authorities refused to acknowledge the legal status of a legally incorporated UK Company and its right to trade in an EU State.
This matter will now be the subject of an official 'plaint' to the European Commission, since it appears to be a flagrant violation of one of the most central and important EU anti-trust Treaties. Microsoft fell foul of this very Treaty and ended up with around a half-billion Euros in fines.
As a result of my decision to transfer the business rights for this trial, the busses will keep running, and the service has now been fully sanctioned under Greek tax Law.
I hope, therefore, that you continue to support it despite what you have read here. It's not all bad news. The service has proved very popular and has a strong demand. Now that it has an official sanction, the major tour operators are now bale to step up and offer tickets to their guests, without fear of falling under the same official hammer - so keep pestering your Reps for tickets and help make this a success.
Unless Greece decides to adhere to EU Directives in the near future, next year the service will have to operate in a different way, with tickets only being available to purchase online. Online sales are exempt under Greek Law. However, with smart-phones, iPads and internet cafes in abundance this should not be a problem, and tickets will be delivered direct to your accommodation. Even more convenient!
The really sad part of this debacle is that in setting up this venture one of my key objectives was to bring innovative ideas to Greece, in a way that would allow most of the revenues generated to remain to support the local economy. This would also generate much needed tax revenues to assist Greek economic recovery.
Sadly, it seems that Greece simply doesn't want them. No wonder the economy is in such a sad state.
Quote from: herman on August 19, 2011, 08:10:38 PM
.... Corfu Direct was registered in the UK and was subject to UK tax liability and that in order to liable for tax in Greece it would have had to be registered as a Greek company.
..... one of my key objectives was to bring innovative ideas to Greece, in a way that would allow most of the revenues generated to remain to support the local economy. This would also generate much needed tax revenues to assist Greek economic recovery.
Excuse my ignorance, but how can it generate tax revenue for the Greek economy if it's a UK registered company liable to
UK tax?
Why wasn't it registered as a
Greek company?
Hi Angie
The whole venture was designed to generate income for local business and only 20% would be taken away from Greece by way of commission. 80% would remain as income for local businesses, by way of commission earned by reseller, income paid to drivers etc.
All these elements would boost tax revenues for the local populace and the government. And frankly, to register a company in Greece takes huge amounts of time, effort and money even if you are Greek let alone trying to do it as a UK citizen. Believe me I looked into it, and I wouldn't be in business for about three years following an application. You have so much red tape here it's scary, and to be honest, Greece is a very unfriendly place to try and start a business, let alone introduce innovation!
Hermon I commend your tenacity, innovation and ability to get this project on the road....
However you have experienced the necessaries of bureaucratic red tape because they can..... not dissimilar to over here from time to time.
I will say no more other than good luck
Ang
Thanks for your support.
The only thing Greece needs to do is to observe the Laws as agreed in various EU Directives. Ignoring them, or observing them only when convenient simply makes Greece an unfriendly place to invest, ideas, energy or money, as I just found out myself.
It has to be said that it is not the Greeks, but the Greek system that is wrong. Most the people I know here want to see things change for the positive, but feel drowned in red-tape and paperwork, which I suppose, would be all well and good if the system actually worked. However the current system really only has the effect of crushing innovation and putting foreigners off investing money here.
That's a real shame because I know so many business people here with great ideas and energy who simply know that to get any new venture off the ground will take them years of negotiation, a lot of cash, and perhaps even bribes in the right places to speed things up.
I think Greece needs to ask itself why an entrepreneur like easyJet founder, Stelios Haji-Ioannou, chose to register and start his business in the UK. The simple reason, I am sure, is that to have started easyJet here would have been almost impossible, especially with all the monopolies and cartels that even today still abound.
I think that Greece is one of the best places on Earth, that's why I keep coming back here. I also think that Greek people are among the best as well. What is wrong here is the system that crushes innovation and requires that you have a licence for just about everything.
The government simply doesn't seem to trust its own people and seeks to over-manage everything.
Things are bound to change soon anyway, since Greece is now having to fully comply with all the EU directives on allowing competition, in order receive financial assistance from the EU and IMF, but rather than having a negative effect I think the changes will breathe new live into a country with massive untapped potential. Younger business people here, I hope, will be given a geniune chance to show what they are capable of.
At least, that would be my wish. Time, no doubt will tell.
The following is a piece I have submitted to Gavin Hewitt, European Editor for the BBC. This incident will possibly be featured by the BEEB next time the subject of Greece rises up the agenda, which could be quite soon!
-------------------
Why Greece is a failed state, but why we should continue to support it.
My last month setting up a business to trade with Greece has answered both of those questions, and done so in the clearest fashion possible. I now fully understand why Greece has the problems it has, and the magnitude of the task that Greek Premier, George Papandreou, has to face. And, it is all to do with systemic corruption, which starts at the very top of Greece's administrative system. My experience also tells me that unless the central issue of corruption in the Greek system is tackled head-on, any money that Greece gets to support its bankrupt economy is just money down the drain, or perhaps more correctly, money in the pockets of a elite class who completely control the country's economic mechanisms.
Greece is essentially a Mafia State, but by mafia I don't mean it is run from Sicily, but simply it follows the business principles originated by the mafia. This is a system of patronage that starts, most worryingly, with the Greek Tax system.
Let me explain how it works.
In Greece you need a license to do just about anything. If you want to open a shop, you need a special license. If you want to open a travel agency you have to have a special license. If you want to drive a coach or taxi you need a special license. This licensing system is the focus around which corruption can thrive, because it centralizes power to control all Greek enterprise, and places it in the hands of a small number of elite and unaccountable, but powerful government officials.
In successful western democracies there is a Front Office - Back Office management model that prevents the concentration of power ending up in the same hands. In the UK if you want to start a registered Company and you meet the legal requirements, you register at Companies House and are issued with a Certificate of Incorporation that both registers you onto the corporation tax system, plus protects your trading identity. With this you can open a business bank account, and you are up and running. The process takes just days. If you need to register for VAT you apply to HM Customs and Excise and get a VAT number. These separate processes automatically tie you into the UK systems for tax collection, the rules of which are the same for everyone. In other words, it's a level playing field, but a playing field in which the roles for the various administrative bodies are separated and clearly defined. If you seriously break the rules you will be investigated and charged by the police, then prosecuted through a separate and independent judicial system.
In Greece it is very different, in fact almost the opposite. The tax office issues everything. They issue the license to trade (equivalent to a certificate of incorporation); they issue the tax number for VAT (equivalent to Customs and excise). They are also responsible for policing businesses and issuing fines if they consider you have broken any rules. In other words, all the functions of business creation, tax monitoring and policing are under the control of the same organization, and this is how it has operated for decades.
One would assume that with this integrated function Greece would have the most cost-effective and efficient tax collection system in the world, but it doesn't work because it promotes corruption. Putting so much power in the hands of so few people and making them self-policing and self-accountable means that they completely control the Greek economy. It's obvious by Greece's current economic situation that these taxes are not being collected and ending up to support the economy. So a good question might be, where exactly is this money going?
This concentration of power doesn't really become apparent until a situation arises when a company from another EU state, which operates outside the Greek tax system, wishes to do business in Greece, or to go into partnership with an existing Greek business. Greece uses the EU as a personal piggy bank to dip into when it needs cash. They don't adhere to the concept that this is a two-way street and it's necessary for them to observe the rules of membership of the club, so when it comes to observing EU directives Greece simply cherry-picks the ones that benefit it, and ignore the ones that don't.
This all came to a head recently with the world financial crash that began in the US. Until this time while money was easy to get, Greece, as a Eurozone state could rely on access to vast amounts of borrowing to support its cash-flow, plus disguise the fact that the country was living way beyond what their tax income could support. Of course, following the crash, when the loans dried up, this became apparent very quickly, because they were unable to borrow more money in order to service the interest on their debts. At this point they turned to the piggy bank of the ECB and the EU to top up their failed economy, but of course their economic partners were all suffering from the same lack of cash-flow funded by borrowing. Everyone was in the same boat, but because the administrative mechanisms of the other EU states were open an honest, the road to recovery was reasonably clear. However, in the case of Greece it was, and still is, hidden behind a fog of confusion and corruption.
So that's the problem. What is the solution?
Actually, it's not as difficult to solve as would be thought. Greece has an educated young population eager for change, who in a commercial world are being suffocated under the piles of paperwork and red tape specifically engineered to keep them under tight control. This abusive official process stifles innovation and is the key element that is holding back Greek recovery. These dynamic people with ideas and energy will never be able to pull the country out of the economic doldrums unless they are given the chance, and a level playing field to do it. Even if only for this reason we must all continue to support Greece in its recovery efforts. As a community of European nations we should all pull together to help each other out, and Greece definitely needs our help.
The system must and will change. This is being made very apparent, to be a condition of propping up the Greek state, by both its EU trading partners as well as the European Central Bank and the IMF. In order to do this, though, Greece must change its administrative structures and weed out the systemic corruption, by adopting similar checks and balances that keep the whole system honest in partner EU states.
Until this happens, and is seen to happen, Greece will continue to slide further and further down the poverty ladder. And, if this does not happen, especially the factors centred on observing EU Directives, consideration should be given as to whether any further financial support should be provided; whether Greece should remain in the Eurozone; and indeed even whether Greece should be permitted to remain a member of the EU.
In summary, these are the tasks that George Papandreou, the current Greek Premier, has to address in order to get his country back on a recovery track. I don't envy him one bit. It will be a huge challenge. Cleaning out decades of corruption and turning Greece back into a trusted trading partner will be a real uphill task, but one which I hope he succeeds in achieving. This clean-up must start at the top and work its way through the whole administrative system if it is to be permanently effective, and the starting point must be to reform the Greek Tax system, by splitting up its administrative responsibilities, since this is both central, and essential, and the single most important blockage to getting economic recovery under way.
Herman, I found your piece to the BBC very informative and echoes quite a few conversations we have had in Arillas recently with various people. We don't want to set up a business in Greece, but are worried about all the red tape that stops the young business people of Greece doing even the little things that keep the resort of Arillas viable.
The incident of the sunbeds not being on the beach until the second week of June is a prime example. How much revenue is lost all over Greece because of the system they employ in heart breaking.
I wish all the luck in the world for your enterprise.
Val x
Thanks for posting this Herman. I found it both saddening and positive at the same time. Like everyone on here I care deeply about the future of Corfu, and sincerely hope your predictions, that the younger generation will make change unstoppable, comes to fruition.
In the meantime, the very best of luck with your new venture. Arillas needs a boost like this - nothing will change the character of the place, but this will help secure a better future for the local community.
Phil
Interesting and informative piece. It will be difficult to reform a system that has paid some people very well to keep it in place for many years.
Whilst people are willing to accept bribes and others willing to make payments to speed up bureaucracy there doesn't seem to be much hope.
It all comes down to human nature and the greediness of some people who just won't see the inevitable price that all the citizens of Greece must now pay.