Arillas Forum

Hi all, it's just be confirmed here that Excel have gone bust, I know they are still operating flights today but other than that there is no real information. Just thought you might like a heads up before this news becomes widespread

Hey Joe,
That doesn't sound good at all does it? I don't really know what else to add at this point. Obviously there are people out there who are going to lose out - which is just awful, but I guess we'll just have to wait & see how great the impact is.
Thanks so much for telling us all.
BeckyB :-)

Aren't Kosmar part of the same group. Have they gone bust also ?

I am sooooo glad I decided XL flights were at the wrong times for us. We fly to Corfu on Monday. The down side is that the weather sites are predicting thundery showers for 3 days next week.

I really hope there aren't too many of our Arillas friends who are affected by the XL news.

When I checked Travel Republic's website this afternoon they were still taking bookings.  That's really bad.

I agree Jersey Bean - that's not good at all is it?
Thanks to Joe for letting folk know though - I too hope that it doesn't have too much of a profound effect on Arillas Forum members.

Joe, keep us up-to-date as much as you can on this please as my parents are currently in Arillas and due to fly home on Monday 22nd with XL airways.

Quote from: Janina & Paul on September 11, 2008, 10:08:39 PM
I am sooooo glad I decided XL flights were at the wrong times for us. We fly to Corfu on Monday. The down side is that the weather sites are predicting thundery showers for 3 days next week.

I really hope there aren't too many of our Arillas friends who are affected by the XL news.

We fly out on Monday too - spotted the thundery showers on the weather forecasts too.  Never mind eh?  at least it isn't UK thundery showers.  Its our first time in Corfu and really looking forward to it after a very stressful year.

Jenna...maybe your parents will just have to stay in Arillas....

Seriously though, this is bad news. My friend's son has worked as cabin crew for Excel for the last 7 years and has a big mortgage. He is in Florida today and it looks like he could be out of a job tomorrow....

Quote from: Sandy x on September 12, 2008, 01:08:11 AM
Jenna...maybe your parents will just have to stay in Arillas....

Well of all the places to be stranded, Arillas would definitely be my number one choice.

Joe, I was doing a bit of research online and I believe that XL airways are ATOL registered.  In that case, what would be the procedure if the flights were cancelled?

This has even come as a surprise to us here, now for the first time we starting to feel thankful of the merger, we probably wouldn't be here otherwise. Ok, for people with existing Excel bookings:

A package including flight and accommodation - Whatever happens you will be ABTA protected and you will be refunded but not necessarily in full.

Scheduled flight only booked on credit card - Your credit company should refund you but you will lose the flight.

Scheduled flight only booked on debit card - This is the problem child, if the airline collapsed there is a high chance you will get no refund and no flight, if this happens when you are oversees they are under no obligation to bring you home.

Now Excel has stopped flying and there are obviously people abroad the CAA will be working to get everyone home as quickly as possible. I notice its made the main news channels now so there might be some good information there to in case you are worried

From the website

Customers booked with XL Leisure Group ATOL tour operators
The following tour operators held Air Travel Organiser's Licenses (ATOL) and customers that purchased air holidays and flights from them will be ATOL protected. Full details are on the Civil Aviation Authority's (CAA) ATOL website (www.atol.org.uk):

The Really Great Holiday Company PLC - ATOL 3827
Trading as: Cruise City, Excel Holidays, The Florida Skytrain, Transatlantic Vacations, Travel City Direct and Travel City International
Kosmar Villa Holidays PLC - ATOL 1760
Trading as: Kosmar Holidays

Freedom Flights Limited - ATOL 5296
Trading as: Freedom Flights
Aspire Holidays Limited - ATOL 6536
Trading as: Aspire Holidays
Customers currently abroad
You should be able to stay in your hotel or villa and complete your holiday. In most cases, your accommodation provider will be paid direct by the CAA so you will not incur any additional expenses. If you need to make any payments for items like hotels or transfers, you should obtain a receipt as far as possible. The CAA will be able to consider claims for refunds for these amounts.

A flight will be arranged to bring you home by the CAA. You can check with your holiday representative for information about any changes to your flight arrangements, or check on the ATOL website (www.atol.org.uk). For those customers in particular distress please contact the CAA's help line on telephone number +44 (0) 2891 856 547.

Customers with advanced bookings but yet to travel
All passengers who have booked through a travel agent should contact that agent in the first instance who will be able to assist you in making a claim on ATOL. If you booked directly with an XL Group company than please contact ATOL directly.

ATOL may be able to provide an alternative arrangement. Further information is available on the ATOL website (www.atol.org.uk).

Customers booked with XL Airways Through XL.com or XL Call Centres
Unfortunately, customers who booked either through xl.com or xl call centres are not ATOL protected. Consequently, you will be ineligible for a refund from ATOL in respect of your flight.

Customers currently abroad
The CAA will be able to make arrangements for your return journey. As you fall into an unprotected category of customers you will be invoiced a fee on your return to the UK. Please check on the ATOL website (www.atol.org.uk) for details or go to the local airport ticketing desk where they will be able to make arrangements and inform passengers of the likely costs.

Alternatively, you may be able to find a flight better suited to your needs by making your own, independent arrangements to return home. The CAA is not in a position to cover the costs of your own arrangements. For all new bookings please ensure you retain your receipts.

If you are owed money as a result of incurring costs to return to the UK please send details of the amount owed to you by the Companies to Kroll Limited, Wellington Plaza, 31 Wellington Street, Leeds LS1 4DL.

Customers should check their travel insurance policy since it may provide cover for airline or accommodation failure. The type of protection provided may also vary depending on the type of policy taken out. A policy may cover the complete or partial cost of the original tickets or accommodation purchased.

If you paid by credit card, you may be protected by Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you paid by Visa debit card you may also have some protection. You should check with your card issuer for further advice.

In the event that you wish to organise your own return travel, detailed below are a list of potential alternative carriers:

First Choice – 0871 200 7799
Thomas Cook – 0870 750 0119
Thomson – 0871 231 5938
Further information can be obtained from the Administrator's help line as follows:

From the UK – 0800 068 8991
From Abroad - + 44 208 242 4783
Customers with advanced booking but yet to travel
All flights have been cancelled and will not be rescheduled.

Customers of Medlife Hotels
Unfortunately, customers who booked through Medlife Hotels are not ATOL protected.

Customers currently abroad
You may be able to stay in your accommodation and complete your holiday. Please contact your relevant travel agent.

Customers with advance bookings but yet to travel
All holidays through Medlife Hotels have been cancelled and the Joint Administrators are not in a position to refund you in respect of these cancelled holidays.

If you are owed money as a result of a cancelled holiday please send details of the amount owed to you by the Companies to Kroll Limited, Wellington Plaza, 31 Wellington Street, Leeds LS1 4DL.

Customers should check their travel insurance policy since it may provide cover for accommodation failure. The type of protection provided may also vary depending on the type of policy taken out. A policy may cover the complete or partial cost of the original tickets or accommodation purchased.

If you paid by credit card, you may be protected by Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you paid by Visa debit card you may also have some protection. You should check with your card issuer for further advice.

Well done Joe...thanks for all that information.

Can we try to get a list together of the other airlines that fly to Corfu?

I can think of :
Easyjet
Avro -(I think this time of year at least they are sharing with XL)
Monarch
Thomas Cook
Olympic (Via Athens) Has anyone done Athens by Ferry? How does that work?

Any body who flew out with XL will be in trouble. I was trying to book a return leg only yesterday myself and availability is terrible as it was.

I think I have seen some first choice planes too but correct me if I am wrong.

Who else?

Regards

There is a list on the Corfu flight board on this forum

Where is that Sandy I couldnt find it yesterday??


Regards
Frank

These really are troubled times for the travel industry. Another airline, Futura, went into liquidation this week and I think there will be quite a few more casualties in the coming months. We have flown with both XL and Futura in the past and I nearly booked with XL for next years holiday but chose Monarch instead. I am even worried about Monarch now. We have also had previous holidays with Kosmar.

I suppose we must all make sure that we book with ATOL registered companies and book using a credit card.

We may have to consider overland travel to Corfu in the coming years, and even that would be a problem this weekend with the Channel Tunnel fire.

I wonder who is in Arillas at the moment, and is due to fly back with XL?

Hi Terry, I was thinking about all the firms we have travelled with in the past, and relised that we have always paid with a debit card. Im going to have to talk to Pete about getting a credit card just for booking things that might go belly up. Bet there's a lot of people that will suffer because they did it the same way. Viv

"Unfortunately, customers who booked either through xl.com or xl call centres are not ATOL protected. Consequently, you will be ineligible for a refund from ATOL in respect of your flight."

This is even news to me, looks like the good old travel agent is not dead yet.

Joe, thanks for all your help so far.  I am a little confused about one thing though.  My parents booked their flights directly through XL.com and their flight number beings XLA which according the CAA website means they are not ATOL protected, however at the bottom of their itinery it states that they are covered under freedom flights ATOL protection.  Any ideas of what would be the case here and should I book alternative flights in case they don't arrange any repatriation flights for them.

;-( well I am one of those unfortunates who have been affected, looks like I won't be going to Arillas in two weeks time! The websites are jammed, the phone lines are jammed, the whole thing is a mess!

Aly I can't believe it that you won't be going after all this time!!! That is awful....keep in touch x

I feel gutted for everyone who has booked a forthcoming holiday through XL and especially those who booked flight only through the company because they have almost certainly lost all their money too.  I'd imagine people

It's been well known for some weeks that XL have been scratching around for extra financing but no-one believed they were this close to oblivion.  

In the longer term, the lower capacity for next summer will keep the prices high and what with the weakening pound this could have a devastating effect on both Corfu and the people who want to go there.

Bad, bad news.

As some of you may know I have been affected by Zoom airlines going under recently, you can imagine my horror this morning when Keith said who did we book our week in Kassiopi with.
We did look at Kosmar as we have been with them before but I think we will be ok as we booked with Olympic.
Just looked at our tickets we are flying with FCA, phew !

Jenna - That does seem a little confusing, personally I doubt they are covered but if you can read the small print carefully and see what it says, it may have been booked through a third party which may offer cover. Also check your travel insurance documents, most policies have some cover against this. Finally if the worst does come to the worst the CAA will bring you home even if you are not covered, they will bill you for this but it will not be extortionate, I think we will be operating some of these rescue flights.

Just heard Jet 2 may be in trouble, I would be wary of them these coming weeks.

Hi Joe

Did you mean Easy jet may be in troble too?

Mandy

joe
we were off to Santorini on tuesday with XL  so thats down the swanny (paid with credit card so should be ok ) but we to have flights booked with XL for next year and at the bottom of the confirmation it says freedom flights...??

Sorry to say but Freedom flights are the same company

XL Leisure Group
XL Airways UK
Excel Aviation
Explorer House
Aspire Holidays
Freedom Flights
Freedom Flights (Aviation)
The Really Great Holiday Company
Medlife Hotels
Travel City Flights
Kosmar Villa Holidays

All part of XL

Quote from: Corfusoon on September 12, 2008, 03:35:45 PM
Hi Joe

Did you mean Easy jet may be in troble too?

Mandy

No the really big players have the business models and the resources to weather this, low cost Easyjet and Ryanair will keep going and in the charter market Thomas Cook and First Choice/Tui will be fine.

Have d/loaded claim form from Atol  and it apears that bookings with Freedom Flights are covered?

info for anyone who paif for XL flights with a Debit card...I have just contacted Lloyds Tsb and they will refund all moneys paid to XL

To Clarify my previous posts ..we had flights with xl to Santorini on Tuesday paid with Credit card(refundable) and flights booked to Arillas next May..paid with Debit card also refundable....all is not lost!!!!

Thats really good news for you there is possibly light at the end of the tunnel now.

So glad we booked with Thomas Cook this time after XL cancelled our flight last September Mick said he would never book with them again.  First time he's ever been right about anything. I just feel for all the people this is going to affect plus the business's abroad that it will have an impact on.  at this rate it might be Blackpool next year!

Jill

Hi Sandy, yes it's looking unlikely so far unless I meet a sugar daddy between now and the 26th lol! I have been surfing the web all day long with jams jams jams (a bit like the roads these days) and finally after 6 hours I got to download the claim form (all nine pages of it). So they want my life story and my flight tickets BEFORE they consider a refund.

I did try my bank today as I booked it with my debit card and they said no to trying to get it back. So did insureandgo (my insurers) which I found a tad weird too.

My second bad news today (sure it's not the 13th?) was I have to wear glasses, so wonga on that.

My third bad news today was redundancies ... (not me) but not nice to hear at all.

and breath ...

Aly

Really bad and catastrophic news for you and all who have had their holiday plans scuppered.

A disaster for holidaymakers and Appt/Hotel owners and in turn a knock on effect for all businesses who rely on these euros.

What flight and holidays will be like next year? - Who knows!

On a lighter note. - You will look good in glasses. - let's hope you can sort something out to give Arillas the benefit of seeing you wear them.

Negg

Hi Eggy. with or without my glasses, all I can see is that the airfares rates have INCREASED phenomenally - it's an appauling state of affairs at the moment and it's not going to get any easier either apparently, much of the same for the next 12 months! I've tried every-which-way to see if I can get another flight out but am not prepared to pay double+ what I originally paid. I will hopefully get it back someday soon. What I did find though was if I was prepared to travel down to London Heathrow, Gatwick or Stanstead the prices 'seem' more reasonable but then adding the travelling down there, is it worth it? Nope

Oh well

been surfin all day for flights over the next few days to any Greek island..and nothing apart for one or two to cyprus...even flights to spain/portugal etc have rocketed..!!

We are lucky that we booked thomas cooke for october(fingers crossed) I almost booked XL again but it was hardly any difference in price for the flight only and the hotel....
Pity all the people stuck out there with getting home,,,,
Also not to Impressed with the crocodile tears from XL`s owner on Tv  I`l bet he drove home in his Merc to his £££££ house.....
I would personally throw them in Jail and lose the key...Rant Rant.....

Kes, I`ve been probing. All seems poodinkies. Pm me.

OOOAly, what a bummer losing the holiday I mean. If you choose your glasses wisely which im sure you will you could almost use them as a jewerey accessorie (after all they cost enough) I know. Love Viv & Pete

Hi Joe, I know you have a lot on your plate at the mo but WHEN you get time could you let me know if you have heard of a firm called charter flight as we booked through them for next May and then they put us on a flight. Viv

DOes anyone know if you have booked flight only through a atol registered travel company, are you still covered for a refund? I'm going to try my bank next to see if they'll refund me.

hi just read all the xl postings we flew with them october last year with only us and another couple on board a220 seater plane im not surprized they have gone down and on sky news this morning they are quoting another 30 airlines to the same way i would be reluctant to book anything in advance at the moment not good news for any of us

ATOL LINK FOR XL   Refunds
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27 (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27)

Aly and anybody affected by this, really sorry for you, it must be devastating.  Hope something/anything can be sorted for you all.

Sharon x

Thanks everyone for your messages of support on this one. In a way, I am glad I was in the UK when this happened and not abroad as there would be nothing worse than having a great holiday only to have the nasty XL full stop at the end of it! yuk.

Well this morning, I put away my holiday clothes, the case is back on the wardrobe and the Euros got changed back to Sterling - for yet another loss lol! Recession recession.

I gotta laugh, otherwise would cry and then my new glasses would be smudged.

Looks like the great British seaside will be making a return for a couple of years - maybe not.

Well, I've booked again. I must admit, the prices that I was quoted with Thomas Cook a couple of weeks ago are the same now. Hopefully I'll get a refund for the xl tickets i bought last week but if not, oh well, it's only money. I hope to see some of you again in August 2009.

Oh dear Corfu seems to be the worse hit by this, its on the news now, passengers just don't know whats going on or when they can get a flight back home.
Well I know what we would have done...got a taxi back to Arillas found some where to stay and just wait it out for a few days until the situation eased...there is NO WAY we could stay at Corfu airport for days waiting for a flight.
I really feel sorry for all of those stuck at the airport
Ang

We have got to go to the airport tomorrow as normal as we have been told that our Air Malta flight (booked through XL) will still be flying. It is what it is and i would rather have this now than get told back home that i wont be having a holiday.

Paul

Good Luck Paul!! I hope for you guys that by tomorrow the situation may have improved.
Ang

This is an interesting list from PaddyPower Betting.

Next airline to go bust?

Applies to the next airline to officially go into administration.


Alitalia    1 - 5
Aer Arann    28 - 1
BMI    50 - 1
SkyEurope    9 - 2
Clickair    28 - 1
Qantas    66 - 1
Air Berlin    8 - 1
Germanwings    28 - 1
Aer Lingus    66 - 1
Spanair    16 - 1
Flybe    33 - 1
easyJet    100 - 1
United Airlines    20 - 1
Olympic    33 - 1 (this is a worry)
Lufthansa    100 - 1
Scandinavian airlines    20 - 1
Jetstar    33 - 1
Virgin Atlantic    100 - 1
JetBlue    25 - 1
Aeroflot    33 - 1
BA    100 - 1
Vueling Airlines    25 - 1
Czech Airlines    33 - 1
Air France    100 - 1
Malev    28 - 1
Air One    33 - 1
Ryanair    100 - 1
LOT    28 - 1
   

Hope Paul has got his information correct....re article in the Birmingham post /..

http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-business/birmingham-business-news/other-uk-business/2008/09/12/xl-leisure-flights-from-birmingham-set-to-be-cancelled-65233-21805952/

Fingers crossed he will be ok

Yes I'm very surprised that Paul has been told to go to the airport. All AM flights due to land at Manchester are coming through 'cancelled'. I hope as I'm typing this he's in the air flying to Corfu.

Sorry to hear about the Excel thingy....but i would rather be trapped in Corfu than in
England.....Like ANG said get a taxi back to Arillas then stay another day or two...lets face it the company i work for won't collapase without me so i'm not that important......the only thing i'd worry about is the cat & getting him fed but i have two people i can rely on to feed him. So back to Arillas for another few days...one question which is better England or Arillas....?????

Just to say we feel sorry for anyone who booked with XL - hope you get a refund.
We are so thankful we decided to change tack this year. We are coming to Arilas with Thomson so hopefully our holiday will still be OK. Only 19 more sleeps Yippee.

Hi Anne...Good for you..  pity we will just miss you in October....we lost our May flights with XL (along with Santorini) but have rebooked for May  with TC

I lost my May flights and the August ones. We've rebooked for August and will probably rebook the May one. Both of them are costing me £600 more though than the XL flights. My son is disapointed as I've not book in flight meals and that's his favourite meal of the holiday.

Quote from: Aly on September 13, 2008, 04:31:48 PM
I gotta laugh, otherwise would cry and then my new glasses would be smudged.

:D the only way to think Aly! Big virtual hug  :)

Erja...these virtual hugs can anyone have one....????

You can`t beat a good hug. Works wonders.

Quote from: keefy on September 15, 2008, 06:19:11 PM
Erja...these virtual hugs can anyone have one....????

But of course! Big hug to you Keefy :)

Well Anne, It seems we have both been very lucky, we usally book XL and stay independently but couldn't get in with such short notice so we booked a package with TC for 13th October (not long now). I feel so sorry for people that have missed out on their holiday and hope that Paul and anybody else that are already there get home safe.
I don't know which I would rather to get stuck out there or here as the accomadation may be already be booked up for this next week or so. Hope to see you in Arillas.
Hugs to everybody and anybody that needs one. Viv

(http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/4.gif)

Viv thanks for the hug (love the smiley) as for me would rather get stuck in Arillas
if I was stuck in England I'd have to go to work....YEUK!

Can I join in the group hug please. Anne xxxxxxxxxxx

Sorry Anne i don't have any smiley's but....

YOU CAN HAVE A BIG HUG FROM KEEFY

Ofcourse you can Anne, What colour do you want to be? lol
(http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/6.gif) 

I'm going to have to get me some of these SMILEYS & TICKERS they improve the look of these posts

just looking through my favorites list I think its safe for me to remove the XL Air link now.

Yep, I reckon it is, going to remove mine now as well. It has been used towards a few holidays in the past and I feel quite sad about having to do it, What is it they say No place for sentement in buisness. Viv

well ive done it after losing £600 pounds to XL i have forked out another £600 to thomas cook for my flight in may hope thomas cook dont go bust but at least they are atol covered ,unlike ex hell rip off merchants.cant wait till may 25th and a week at annas.

Good for you. It seems a lot of money but Im sure it will be worth it to you. Viv

Quote from: wino1605 on September 19, 2008, 05:59:47 PM
well ive done it after losing £600 pounds to XL i have forked out another £600 to thomas cook for my flight in may hope thomas cook dont go bust but at least they are atol covered ,unlike ex hell rip off merchants.cant wait till may 25th and a week at annas.

Excel's demise has actually strengthed us (Thomas Cook) and we are now in a better position than before, you will be perfectly safe booking with us and Thomspon/First Choice for that matter.

it may be costly for me next year but you cant put a price on paradise can you.

Ditto, we to lost our May flights & have rebooked with TC..  although has cost us a little  more......

Guys, too much is being made of this. Airlines like other companies are in poor shape for at least the time being.

If you buy your flights on a credit card you are covered in the event of a failure, if you take a decent holiday insurance out you are covered.

So if the worst happens at least you get your money back.

There are not many people I would hand over a stack of cash to on the promise of a service some months away. Why would flying be any different.

Credit Card payment gives you protection. Insurance gives you protection.

If you are booking without taking these precautions upon yourself then you need to take a long hard look at how you operate!

Sermon over.

Take a look at this:

http://www.moneywise.co.uk/news-views/2008/09/12/are-you-covered-against-collapsing-airlines

Have been directly dealing with this the past few weeks the biggest problem is not getting the money back it is the inconveniance of having no holidays after booking leave, sorting out spending money etc, etc.

You can refund peoples costs you cannot refund their time and passengers cannot protect themselves from that, that is what is causing the reaction to this. A collapse like this has been coming, I posted on these very forums at the start of the year that we would lose some major names this year and still when it happened it caught us all out.

Another issue facing us now is that for the moment demand is outstripping supply in regard to holidays next year, this may bottom out. Normally if it is a good time to book I will pop on these boards and let you know, at present I just cannot call it, spend more and book now for a guaranteed holiday or wait for cheaper prices and then no holiday available. I personally would book early for next year but as seen things can quickly change. With Excel's demise the major package holiday players are now in a stronger position so do not worry if you have booked with them, the smaller low cost airlines are there ones that will now suffer, may have mentioned this before but watch out for Air Malta and Jet 2, neither are looking healthy at the moment.

Sarcastic and pissed off

Thanks Joe for all the information but Sarcastic says is this the Joe who said about 3 weeks ago when all trouble started that if you are with someone like XL you should be OK . Pissed off , not been to Kos no flight with Air Malta

PS Had a great week in Scotland

PS PS only joking Joe no offence

lost ours as well... should have been away last week...

Looking for next year, any ideas kes?

Quote from: Dave n Anne on September 21, 2008, 10:31:00 PM
Sarcastic and pissed off

Thanks Joe for all the information but Sarcastic says is this the Joe who said about 3 weeks ago when all trouble started that if you are with someone like XL you should be OK . Pissed off , not been to Kos no flight with Air Malta

PS Had a great week in Scotland

PS PS only joking Joe no offence

No offence taken :) but equally sorry if I caught anyone out with that, it was the sheer speed of the collapse that caught us all out, we knew they were in trouble but a rescue package had been sourced and it was expected they would struggle through the rest of the summer, their website was still taking bookings after the liquidation was announced.

Hi Joe

No worries , looking forward to next year now . Soon be back in Arillas .

Cheers

Dave

XL went bust while we were on holiday in Arillas and so had to be flown home by a "rescue flight". The rearranged flight was booked a couple of hours later than our original time to East Midlands and then a coach transfer to Bristol. This we thought was fair enough. We arrived at Corfu airport in good time, then the chaos started. The flight was also flying on to Belfast. Nobody seemed to be able to tell us which queue to join and there was just a general scrummage. The flight was supposed to be with Monarch but their flights were all running late and we were told that we were delayed and could even go back through passport control and sit outside if so inclined, so we all new it would be a fair length of time. Any way we eventually got away 4 hours late on a Spanish plane ,couldn't tell you the name. We arrived at East Midlands and the coaches were there waiting to take us to Bristol and 3 hours later arrived. Picked up the car and drove home. In all from the apartment to home 20 hours. I suppose compared to others not too bad. At least we got our holiday, but it seemed to us that nobody cared about the people on these flights.

A 20 hour delay you say PaulC did you not think about going back to resort for a day or two.....because 20 hours you must have been starving,thirsty. Not to mention tired how did you go on about letting family & friends back in England know what was going on....

Sorry Keefe's, perhaps I didn't explain very well. It was 20 hours travelling from the apartment to our home not 20 hours delay.We normally do the journey in about half that time.

Sorry PaulC I am a bit fik (thick)......but a very long time double your usual time.
Wife and I came back on 5th Sep(pre EXCEL going bust). It was one of the fastest ones we have done. In fact the only delay was back in England  and being locked out of passport control. We got off the bus from the plane only to be left in a corridor for about 30 mins no one was going to let us in. (is it possible they knew i was coming back)